a few of my betta tanks dont have filters so itll have to be able to live without one. i want something that will eat any left over bloodworms and other food. i dont overfeed often but still its a pains to try a get leftovers out of the sand. i was wondering if ramshorns would make a good choice. i have one and i like him. i dont want something as messy as a mystery snail though, thats my problem here. i dont want an overly messy snail. i tryd MTS but they dont seem to be doing the job and neither do my small pond snails.

You shouldn't really keep any species in unfiltered tanks. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. As to adding a snail, forget it you would just be adding even more load and pollution to the environment you are keeping those poor fish in.

Ade

as to putting a snail in with the betta, you could. How big are the containers, tanks you have the bettas in? If they are large a snail should be ok, i would guess. you could put either duckweed, anacharis, or hornwort in with the betta to use as a natural filter. I am not an expert on snails, i only have trapdoor snails, and those pests snails right now. trapdoor snails are pretty peaceful though. the betta will also eat the duckweed

they are five gallon tanks and they already have plenty of java moss in them. i just need a critter to come along and eat up any left over food. i cant really see a snail's bioload being that big of a deal. and "those poor fish" are making bubble nests so if they are miserable i see no signs of it, all im aware of is that they are attention whores that keep coming to the glass everytime i walk by wanting me to stand there forever and talk to them silly fishie.

oh, and fishbreeder2, i see your new here. welcome to tropical fish forums


This post has been edited by Starfishpower: Jun 26 2008, 09:13 PM

Hi, i've also heard of putting ghost shrimp in with bettas as long as you give them cover when they shed and grow, because then there soft an could easily be killed by the betta, and they are neat to watch when they dig through the gravel to search for leftover food, and i'm pretty sure they will eat the live foods too. for a 5gal. tank i'd put 2-5 maybe a few, not sure how many per gallon.

your right on track there. iv actually thought of that and really like the idea except that iv been told that ghost shrimp need a filter. the more i think about it though, the more i wonder just how true that is. how many ppl have actually tried it? i bet if i keep up with regular water changes and keep my live plants in there and all that good stuff that they will be just fine. i think i might try it and see what happens.

I think they would be just fine. I've only had ghost shrimp once and they were in a 55gal. I don't see anymore now. That was with a filter. they do swim around the tank too. I'd say if they get agressive towards your betta you should move them to a separate bowl but i don't think they would, also they are a lot more fun to watch than a snail is. And if they breed your betta will have live food, lol. some might survive in the java moss though.

Shrimp are sensitive to low levels of oxygen, so I would add an airstone or something if you want to try it.

Shrimp are also very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite, something that is going to be present in abundance in an unfiltered tank.

I think you are missing the point, they might be fine with a betta, but they WONT be fine kept in tanks with absolutely NO filtration at all.

Adding any more animals is just going to increase the amount of ammonia been produced, which is going to end up having a detrimental effect on everything in there, inverts and betta alike.

Ade

This post has been edited by Wolfenrook: Jun 27 2008, 02:50 PM

iv got a few airstones so im good to go on that part. i just dont understand why shrimp need a filter. what does the filter do? im not a noobie at this anymore so the simplistic answer about cycling and toxins isnt news to me. what more does a filter do that is a necessity in the world of shrimp? iv got plenty of live plant in there, big clumps of java moss, an airstone, and i do regular water changes. do they really need any more than that? if it was a regular aquarium i would say, ya, absolutely they do, but its a single betta. i mean really, one cute little female betta swimming around in 5 gallons all by herself. and she's not a messy betta either, none of them are. i could be wrong, but i just dont see the problem so long as the water changes are done regularly enough.

The reason it's necessary to shrimp is that they're far more sensitive to ammonia than the betta. Even if you keep levels very low with water changes and java moss, without a filter there's going to be some in there there. My shrimp were wiped out by ammonia levels that I could barely measure.

Exactly. Bettas are designed to live in polluted environments, which is why you are getting away without filtration. Shrimp on the other hand are super sensitive to even low levels of ammonia and nitrite, and without biological filtration ammonia is going to be present in quite high levels. There is absolutely no way that shrimp could survive in this. Some people have managed to keep small numbers of small shrimp on their own in very well planted tanks, but your betta has a much higher output of ammonia than shrimp do, and WILL release enough in a very short time to kill shrimp.

Personally I don't think you should even be keeping a betta in an unfiltered tank. The ammonia WILL be having detrimental effects on them, despite the fact that you can't observe these. Just because it's not dying doesn't mean it is happy.

Ade

I would avoid shrimp, chances are they would die quite swiftly, whether by being eaten or from toxicity. I keep a zebra nerite snail in with my betta, and it does a good job of cleaning up, however I think they're better for algae than food matter - IDK about whether they're omnivorous or not

well ok then, i guess i wolnt try shrimp i like your idea Million about the nerite snail, but the lfs i know that sells them only has olives and id rather wait and find a place that has zebra.