Ok, this is for all you discus keepers. I'm playing with the idea of trying discus. I'm just in the research stage right now and trying to get as much info as I can in order to make an informed decision as to if I really want to do this or not. The thing that is making me the most hesitant is the common belief that they are very difficult to keep. So since I'm just starting my research I have a few questions and will probably have lots more so any help would be really appreciated. Ok, here goes:
first, I'm planning on using a 55g tank that I have. It already is set up for central americans and has a heater and an AC500. I'm thinking of adding a Rena XP2 or using the AC500 on another tank I have and using just a Rena XP3 on the 55gal. The XP3 is rated for 175g so will that be enough for a 55g tank with discus or will that be overkill?
1. Are they really that difficult to care for?
2. Do you just use water out of the tap or do you try to soften it with peat or some other substance?
3. I'm thinking of going bare bottom with the tank, is this a good idea? I've read it makes keeping things clean a lot easier.
4. How often do you do water changes? I've read some do them weekly while others do them daily. I can handle weekly but if it's daily, I have to admit I don't have the time for that.
5. How many discus do I go with? I've read 6 is a good number for a 55g but I don't want to overstock and I was thinking 4 would be an ok number.
6. I want this to be a species tank but I would like to add some cory cats as a clean up crew because from what I've read, discus are messy eaters. Which cory cats do ok in the higher temps that discus require?

Well that's it for now. Sorry to ask so many questions but I want to make sure I can take care of these guys properly before I get them.

Thanks

Hi Sheilaf, Well done for doing research, many don't and thats where they go wrong.
Tank and filter are ideal, over filtering is better than underfiltering.
1. They are not difficult fish to keep and care for, the saying goes you keep the water not the fish, as long as you keep them in good quality water and and have an exelant waterchange routine they should thrive
2. it depends on you water paremeters, you need to test your ph, gh and kh as long as ph isn't too high and you have soft water with lower gk/kh it will be fine from the tap otherwise you can lower it with r/o water or peat.
3. I use barebottom for growing my Discus as the grow best with good quality water which is easier to to acheive in bbtank, its only since i have had bbtanks i realized how much waste and crud settles on bottom. My fish from 4" to adult go in planted tank with tankmates no problem
4. Its only daily if you have fry or v.young discus, main tank once or twice weekly
5. 10 gallon per adult, 5 would be good number to share out aggression + a few small tankmates if wanted.
6. sterbai's cory can handle the high temps well, other good tankmates are bristlenose's, rummynose tetras (these are good for indicating poor water quality as colours fade quickly if all is not well), cardinals and rams

Buying good quality discus from specialist breeders is a good start as well and have the tank mature before you get them, it gives you abit of time to play around with water and get it consistant

hope that helps, looking forwards to seeing your tank in the near future
regards Angel

1) The reputation that they are difficult to care for mostly comes from wild discus which do have many more special requirements than those have been tank raised for several generations. That being said, Discus generally are not considered beginner fish because of their eating habits (grazing fish that can be rather picky), clean water requirements, and compatibility difficulty.

2) Most discus that come from breeders should be able to accept a higher pH/hardness than wild discus, but do consider that high pH/hardness can affect coloration and breeding ability. Also consider the level of nitrates in your tap. Discus do need clean water for good health, and thus tap nitrates should be considered when you determine how many water changes you can and will be doing.

3) Bare bottom tanks for Discus are often recommended, especially for beginners.

4) Frequency of water changes can be affected by several different factors. Younger fish should have more frequent water changes, especially to prevent stunting due to hormone build up.

5) Tank size recommendations always vary...although most will agree it's easier to keep younger fish in smaller tanks (like a 55) due to the frequency of water changes. Similarly the minimum number for a school varies in recommendation. Generally I trust the 6 for a 75 G+.

6) The high tank temp of Discus is one of the big reasons that they are often recommended for species only tanks. While fish can sometimes survive in temps higher than recommended, it is hard on them physically, and can shorten their lifespans. If you have a bare bottomed tank, there shouldn't be that much need for a clean up crew anyway.

Discus have a reputation for being hard to keep because people don't do what you are currently doing, and research first. Another common mistake is to assume the what works for one person, will work for all. In the short time that I have been keeping them, I have already noted that many of the recomended ways for doing things just don't work for me. Large weekly waterchanges for example tended to anoy my fish rather than keep them happy. Mine do great on a 25% weekly waterchage, in a tank that is litely stocked. Many will say that 25% is not enough, but if I go change any more in one go, my fish go on a 4 day long sulk, usualy with a disease outbreak as a consiquence I have thus done as they have told me to do and cut down on water change volume. They have never shown as good colouration and been as healthy untill this change in waterchange volume

My ways of doing things are greatly different to what most keepers on here recomend, but the end of the story is that their way of doing things didn't work for me or my fish. Listen to them over me though, as their way of doing things works for more people than my method. If theirs doesn't work, look at alternatives.

Best practice with any "advanced" fish, is to read every refernce book you can get your hands on, and read as many web pages as possible. Once you can recite answers to any question from memory, chuck the books, ignore the webpages, and forget the answers Now mimic a set-up that is working for someone else. Get it matured and then get your discus. If the set-up that you have now got yourself works, great, don't change anything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it If it don't work, follow the gut instinct that you should have developed though research to tweak the system untill it does work

IME hardness is more important to discus than correct pH. 4 discus would focus a lot of agressing on the group "runt", so 5 would be better. 6 would be borderline overstocked, and may lead to issues. I have kepk corry Adolfi and Metea (spelling?) with my discus with no issues Bare bottom is better from a cleaning point of view, but some keepers note that reflections from the bottom spook their fish If this is an issue, place a thin layer of silicone on the bottom, and cover with sand. Leave it for 24hours and tip out the excess sand. This will form a covering that dirt cannot penetrate, and also eliminate the reflections Allow it a further 48hours for the silicone to set correctly, then re-fill

Once you have forund what works, Discus are not a hard fish. It is finding what works that is more difficult. Research, research and research some more and you will increase your chances of success.

HTH, and sorry if this throws fat onto the fire
Rabbut

Ok, I have a few more questions.

I'm having trouble deciding what filtration to go with. I already have an Aquaclear110 (500gph) on the tank and I really prefer aquaclears because I find them very reliable and easy to maintain (I had a fluval in the past and while it worked great, I found maintenance a pain). I'd like to add another Aquaclear110 but I don't know if that will be ok or if I should use a canister filter. Any opinions? The Aquaclear will also save me some $$$ which I'd like to use to buy the discus.

My next issue is how many discus? I originally wanted 4 or so but have been told mixed things about aggression. A lot of people advise 6 but I don't want to overcrowd and cause issues that way. I've heard odd numbers are better than even, I've heard 6 is the min. you want. I know people who only have 3!! I've also read about the 1 discus per 10g rule which most people seem to agree on. If that's the case, would 5 be ok? Would aggression be ok or would that 1 extra fish really make that much of a difference?

I've also heard about discus needing to be dewormed. Can anyone tell me about this? Do you do it in your main tank or do you do it in a seperate tank prior to putting your discus in the main tank?

IMO, the canisters are better, with increased media capacity and larger media surface area, they should require less maintanance and will recover from cleaning quicker. They are more expencive, but they are the best type of filtration

There is no hard and fast rule about discus numbers, other than they need to be in a group, and require 10 gals each. 5 would be better than 4, but that said, I've only had 4 over the last 3 months, and they don't appear to be suffering as a result

I worm using medicated food, as most wormer baths I've come across don't work. There is again no hard and fast rule on worming. Some keepers never worm, others worm once only, and others worm monthly. My method is 5ml of pupy mormer left to soak with a frozen food for half an hour I only do this as a one off

HTH
Rabbut

So I've switched the tank over and everything is going really well. The discus are settling in well and are very outgoing, they are also little pigs!
Here are some pics of the fish and the tank:

Nice discus you got, they seem settled, love the yellow ones, don't feed them tetra prima like i did, it brings out the orange. Tank is looking good i like the bogwood, will look great when the plants fill out
regards Angel

Thanks, they are doing really well, eating like pigs and not hiding at all. So far they are only eating bloodworms but I'm going to get them onto a variety of foods if I can. I'm really enjoying them and I can't wait for them to grow and the plants to all fill in!

There are some real nice ones amongst those Good to hear they are eating well and none are showing stress lines. You are obviously doing something right

All the best
Rabbut

Well, I haven't even had them a week yet. 3 I got last thursday and the other 3 I got on sunday so time will tell if I'm doing things right or not. Today will be the first water change so I hope I don't mess anything up. They are eating like pigs but so far will only eat bloodworms. Any suggestions on how to get them to eat other foods as well? Thanks for the positive comments!

This post has been edited by Sheilaf: May 20 2008, 03:59 PM

Mine are very reluctant to change too. I tend to starve them after a couple of weeks of heavy feeding. After this, starve down, I offer only the new food untill they accept it greatefuly. Then I feed all my different foods again. These fish are very fussy eaters

HTH
Rabbut

How long do you starve them for before offering the new food? Mine are still small so I don't want them to go without food for too long, but at the same time I don't want them to be stuck on eating only one kind of food. I believe variety is important to nutrition.

I feed existing food heavily for a week or two before starting the starve. Then I starve for between 3 days and a week. Then I offer the new food/foods only for up to a week before I revert to the old food again, unless they are now accepting the new food. My discus regularly turn their nose up at flakes, frozen and other foods, even if a simply change manufacturer . They are astonishingly picky creaures.

All the best
Rabbut

Ive just purchased a breeding pair and already had two youngsters myn seem to be eating anyhing i offer them but i tend to stick to prima and the discus diet that comes frozen they love these but i do mix flakes in with the prima this way it fools them into eating it they just think its their usual dabble coming down and eat it up, only thing im not sure about is weather or not i should be feeding frozen daily im giving the discus diet or tropical quartet twice a day one block on the morning one on the evening and the prima in between

I feed tropical quintet, once cube in the early morning, one in the early evening. This diet of frozen food is ofset by a hight protien discus feed, Kisuri Tropical Discus Sticks to be precice, and catfish sinker pellets, also twice a day once late morning morning and late evening Frozen is good, as the discus digestive system is relatively short and prone to constipation issues with only dried food going in. Adding frozen flushes the system and prevents constipation
I remember reading somewhere that it only takes 30 mins for food to pass through a discus . Not sure how true this is, but if you see them in bright light, you can see how short the digestive tract is, as it appears as a darker patch within them. This means that anything you feed them needs to be easily digetible, as it isn't going to spend long in the fish being digested
Mine weren't too fussed about the frozen discus mixes, and I had real trouble getting them to accept them, even after my starving techniques. I won't offer it again, though it's a good food if you can get them to accept it
I will probibly feed exclusively frozen once growth has stopped, as high protien foods break down to ammonia when the fish get their energy, and lots of it. This means increased maintanance. High protien diets when not needed can also lead to fatty liver disease, so only offer lots of protien to adult discus if you are trying to get them to spawn. High carbohydrate diets are better after growth is done, as it breaks down to water and C02 when the fish get energy, so minimal ammonia is produced and a reduction in maintanance can be made It is also more easy to obtain energy from carbohydrate, so you can also feed less. There also are no dodgy by-products, so there is no risk of diet related illnesses such as fatty liver disease

HTH
Rabbut

This post has been edited by rabbut: May 20 2008, 08:42 PM

Wow, thanks for the info. It was really helpful. Since my discus are still so new I think it would be a good idea to wait a bit before trying anything new.