Hybridizing Livebearers, A little guide |
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Hybridizing Livebearers, A little guide |
Sep 19 2005, 07:03 PM
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#1
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![]() Leader of the Fishes Group: Retired Mod Posts: 6154 Joined: 1-March 04 From: Maryland Member No.: 4542 |
Well….there seems to be more and more questions about hybridizing Livebearers these days. So here is some handy information that might help you out. There’s lots to think about, before you hybridize.
First off, the families of Livebearers! There are four families of Livebearers, not counting Stingrays. Poeciliidae These make up the largest family, with almost 200 species! They are called toothed carps because they have teeth on both the upper and lower jaw. The teeth are so tiny, though, that you need a microscope to see them. Toothed carps are the ones usually kept in aquariums. They originally came from the Americas, though their range extended from the North USA, to Argentina, in the south. Some of these fish feed primarily on mosquitoes and their larvae, however, scientists conceived the idea of using them to control the mosquito population biologically. Guppies and mosquito fish were introduced into the wild and swampy areas of Southeast Asia and the Philippines to keep marial mosquitoes in check. The fish spread to all sub-tropical and tropical waters, including the waters near southern Europe. Goodeidae These fish aren't commonly found in tanks. Only about 35 species of this live-bearer are known. They live in the rivers and lakes surrounding, and in the Mexican plateau, along with the rivers leading down to the Pacific Ocean, from the plateau. Hemirhamphidae They are easily distinguished from other live-bearers by their beak-like mouths, and straight pike-like bodies About 20 species are in this family. They live in both fresh and brackish water. They can be found from in India to Indonesia, also in the Philippines and Southeast Asia. Anablepidae This is the fourth family, and they are some of the most interesting fish you can keep. They have the amazing ability to see above and below water at the same time, thus the name four-eyed fish. Four-eyed fish generally live the in brackish water of mangrove swamps. They occasionally occur in pure saltwater too. These fish have been found living in freshwater, hundreds of miles inland, but they are usually found along the Atlantic coasts of Central and South America. So now we know the families…but why is that important? Well, because, Livebearers MUST be in the same family to hybridize. They also have to be in the same genera. I did a small species list, color-coded to show you who can breed with who. However, it is only color-coded by family, since there are a limited amount of colors. . I have only done the most basic species here, basically the ones you will be able to get the easiest. If you all want me to add a whole list of Livebearers, I can do that, but I didn’t want you all to have trouble finding your fish. However, if you have just one or two fish you think should be added, just PM me. Poeciliidae Poecilia sphenops - Molly, Short-finned Molly Poecilia latipinna - Sailfin Molly (Variation, Balloon Molly) Poecilia velifera - Mexican Sailfin Molly, Yucatan Sailfin Molly, Green Molly, Sailfin Molly Poecilia reticulata - Guppy, Feeder Guppy, Fancy Guppy Poecilia sp. - Endlers Livebearer Xiphophorus helleri - Swordtail Xiphophorus maculatus - Platy Xiphophorus Variatus - Variegated Platy, Variatus Platy Gambusia affinis - Western Mosquito Fish (They technically can cross with Guppies, however they can be extremely aggressive, so this is one to be very careful with) Heterandria Formosa - Dwarf Livebearer, Mosquito fish, Dwarf Top Minnow Belonesox belizanus - Pike Livebearer Hemirhamphidae Nomorhamphus liemi liemi - “True” Celebes Halfbeak Nomorhamphus ebrardtii - Orange finned Halfbeak (Often sold as Celebes Halfbeak) Dermogenys pusilla - The Wrestling Halfbeak Goodeidae Ameca splendens - Butterfly Goodeid Characodon lateralis - Rainbow Goodeid Caracodon audax - Bold Caracodon or Black Prince Xenotoca eiseni - Orange Tailed Goodeid Anablepidae Anableps anableps - Four-eyed Fish The most common true hybrids, out of this list would be Platy/Swordtail, Guppy/Endler, and True Celebes Halfbeak/Orange-finned Halfbeak. However, please note, it is not guaranteed any two fish will breed. Some need to be genetically hybridized. Just because you put two fish of the same genera together does NOT mean they will breed. Also, please consider what you will do with the fry. Not all fish stores will take hybrids. And all the fry will need homes. I strongly urge you to think the whole thing through, a good few times, and then consider breeding. Also, please remember, just because you breed two different fish together, doesn’t mean you’ll get something spectacular. For example, Endler/Guppies just look like fancier Endlers, or sometimes not even different at all. Also, all color variations of the same fish will readily breed together, and are not considered hybrids. Before you attempt to hybridize, after you’ve thought everything through, realize what the fry will need, have homes for them, etc., consider what the adult fish need. Do they need Brackish water? A huge tank? Well, here is my species list again, but with the needs of the fish. Just Max Size/Min. Tank Size/Fresh, Brackish, or Marine. Minimum tank size is the absolute minimum…bigger is better. Also, it depends on how many fish you keep, but you can use your common sense to figure out that more fish need a bigger tank. Poeciliidae Molly, Short-finned Molly (Poecilia sphenops) - 4"/15 gallon/Fresh Sailfin Molly, Variation: Balloon Molly) (Poecilia latipinna) - 6”/20 gallon/Fresh, Brackish (Can be acclimated to saltwater if done correctly) Mexican Sailfin Molly, Yucatan Sailfin Molly, Green Molly, Sailfin Molly (Poecilia velifera) - 6"/20 gallon/Fresh Guppy, Feeder Guppy, Fancy Guppy (Poecilia reticulata) - 2”/5 Gallon/Fresh (Can take salt) Endlers Livebearer (Poecilia sp.) - 2”/5 gallon/ Fresh Swordtail (Xiphophorus helleri) - 4” (7” including tail on males)/15 gallon/Fresh Platy (Xiphophorus maculatus) - 2”/10 gallon/Fresh (Can take salt) Variegated Platy, Variatus Platy (Xiphophorus Variatus) - 3”/10 gallon/Fresh Western Mosquito Fish (Gambusia affinis) - 2.5”/10 gallon/Fresh, (Sometimes found in Brackish waters) Dwarf Livebearer, Mosquito fish, Dwarf Top Minnow (Heterandria Formosa) - 1”/1 gallon/Fresh Pike Livebearer (Belonesox belizanus) - 7.8”/45 gallons/Fresh, Brackish Hemirhamphidae “True” Celebes Halfbeak (Nomorhamphus liemi liemi) - 4”/20 gallons/Fresh Orange finned Halfbeak (Nomorhamphus ebrardtii) - 3.5”/20 gallons/Fresh The Wrestling Halfbeak (Dermogenys pusilla) - 3”/20 gallons/Fresh, Brackish Goodeidae Butterfly Goodeid (Ameca splendens) - 4.7”/3’ Aquarium/Fresh Rainbow Goodeid (Characodon lateralis) - 2”/15 gallons/Fresh Orange Tailed Goodeid (Xenotoca eiseni) - 3”/20 gallon/Fresh Anablepidae Four-eyed Fish (Anableps anableps) - 12”/55 Gallon/Brackish Of course, before you put any fish together, look at their compatibility and their water needs. Research them. A lot. For some of these fish that can go Fresh/Brackish, or Brackish/Marine, find out how they were raised, then keep them in the same conditions. Research, research, research these fish before you get them! Most of these fish can be kept in community tanks, however, if you are trying to hybridize, I would consider a dedicated tank just for that. Also, if one fish you are trying to hybridize is bigger then the other, make the female that of the bigger species, so the smaller fish doesn’t have bigger then normal babies growing in her. This can lead to stress, birthing issues, and even death. And last but not least, enjoy your fish, even if you decide not to hyrbidize. All fish are special, and pretty in their own way. If you have any corrections, or anything you want to add, feel free to post, or PM me! |
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Sep 19 2005, 07:27 PM
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#2
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![]() Sleepy Chook Group: Members Posts: 2867 Joined: 13-December 03 From: Sleeping Somewhere. Or doing water changes. Or running with Mac. Newcastle, NSW, Australia Member No.: 3178 |
Excellent artivcle Anna. I hope this gets pinned
question: if I have a platy with many colours, how do I know if its a variegated platy or a regular platy? |
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Sep 19 2005, 07:37 PM
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#3
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![]() Leader of the Fishes Group: Retired Mod Posts: 6154 Joined: 1-March 04 From: Maryland Member No.: 4542 |
Thanks Chook.
Variatus Platies don't look too much like Maculatus Platies...they have a more elongated body, and not so much that big tummy. They tend to look more like Swords, however they have a slightly deeper body then Swords, and obviously, if they are a male, no Sword. Does that make sense at all? It's not the coloring, as Variatus Platies come in the same Colors as Maculatus, it's more the body shape. |
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Sep 20 2005, 05:06 AM
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#4
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![]() Sleepy Chook Group: Members Posts: 2867 Joined: 13-December 03 From: Sleeping Somewhere. Or doing water changes. Or running with Mac. Newcastle, NSW, Australia Member No.: 3178 |
I think most of my platies are variatus then. I have a few stocky ones, but the others are more elongated, even when the girls are pregnant
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Sep 24 2005, 06:06 PM
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#5
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![]() member of the 10,000 club Group: Members Posts: 10852 Joined: 26-May 04 From: Kent, England. Age: Over 21! Member No.: 6418 |
great article Sweetie
just so I've got this straight in my own head a guppy can be crossed with a molly (muppy?) a molly can be crossed with a platy (polly?) a platy can be crossed with a guppy (gatty?) |
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Sep 24 2005, 08:32 PM
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#6
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![]() Leader of the Fishes Group: Retired Mod Posts: 6154 Joined: 1-March 04 From: Maryland Member No.: 4542 |
Not quite!
Molly and Guppies are Muppies or Gollies. Platies and Swordies are just Swordie/Platy hybrids. They often don't turn out as anything special, since they have been bred together to get coloring on both fish. So Platies can only be crossed with Swordies. No Mollies or Guppies. Because they are different genuses...Platies and Swordies are Xiphophorus and Guppies, Mollies, and Endlers are Poecilia. Does that make sense? |
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Sep 25 2005, 06:23 AM
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#7
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![]() member of the 10,000 club Group: Members Posts: 10852 Joined: 26-May 04 From: Kent, England. Age: Over 21! Member No.: 6418 |
yes, thanks
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Jun 27 2006, 04:43 AM
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#8
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![]() Fish Addict Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Allentown, PA, USA Member No.: 19316 |
well in this thread they say u can hybridize a gambusia with a guppy http://www.fishforums.net/content/Livebearers/145112/http-www-fishforums-net-index-php-showtopic-145112/
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Jul 6 2006, 07:45 PM
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#9
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Stephen Group: Members Posts: 3673 Joined: 5-June 04 From: Kenosha, Wisconsin Member No.: 6723 |
They can, iv seen it done first hand, the only difficultys being that the gambusia are quite agressive, and the spawn are very weak and sterile.
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Jul 10 2006, 03:55 AM
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#10
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Newbie Group: Member Posts: 3 Joined: 8-July 06 Member No.: 22751 |
QUOTE(The-Wolf @ Sep 25 2005, 04:06 AM) [snapback]917069[/snapback] great article Sweetie just so I've got this straight in my own head a guppy can be crossed with a molly (muppy?) a molly can be crossed with a platy (polly?) a platy can be crossed with a guppy (gatty?) a guppy and endlers livebearers can breed too:S |
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Jul 10 2006, 12:10 PM
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#11
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![]() Leader of the Fishes Group: Retired Mod Posts: 6154 Joined: 1-March 04 From: Maryland Member No.: 4542 |
Gambusia x Guppy is in there.
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Dec 20 2007, 10:07 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Member Posts: 2 Joined: 20-December 07 Member No.: 37732 |
Hi-I'm new & I'm sure you get this all the time, but I searched & nothing came up.
I read somewhere that Mollies, Platies and Swordtails could interbreed. What are the facts? Thanks! |
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Dec 20 2007, 10:45 PM
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#13
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Newbie Group: Member Posts: 2 Joined: 20-December 07 Member No.: 37732 |
If I understand your chart, Mollies & Guppies can breed. Swordtails and Platies can breed. But that's it? Not Mollies & Platies, or Mollies & Swordtails. Is that right?
They all three look so similar, you'd think.... |
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Dec 22 2007, 03:08 AM
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#14
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![]() Fish Addict Group: Members Posts: 971 Joined: 26-August 07 From: Queensland, Australia Member No.: 34886 |
Yes. The Guppy and Molly are both poecilia species, and I've seen countless molly hybrids (mixups of standard sailfin, yucatan sailfin, sphenops etc.) The Guppy is often hybridised with Endler's Livebearer, but this is frowned upon because most people are trying to keep the Endlers lines pure. Some serious breeders (ie swampriver) are crossing guppy/endler for fancy-finned endlers.
Most platies are hybrids of maculatus and variatus anyway, and it's very hard to tell with the hybrids how much of each or exactly what they are. Any swordtail displaying the mickey mouse marking is a platy hybrid. |
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Feb 26 2008, 12:11 AM
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#15
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![]() Fish Crazy Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 21-February 08 From: Papillion, Nebraska Member No.: 39612 |
There are so many hybrids in the Xiphophorus family. I have black swords, a cross between a green sword and a littl eknown type of platy. Platies crossing with platies, swords crossing with platies, platies crossing with swords...its crazy...lol
Are there any that were created in experimintation? |
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