Hi Folks,

I am preparing my new 30 gallon tank for some Ryukin goldfish. I'd like to get three. So I researched new tank cycling. I bought a used aquarium from someone in my neighborhood, and it came with a testing kit, and other assorted items.

Day 1: I fill the tank, and add de-chlorinator. I use the test kit and get these measurements:

temp: 76F
ph: 7.6
ammonia 1.0
nitrate - 0
nitrite - 0

Day 2: I add Four zebra danios, 2 small plants, and some bacteria CYCLE to the water.

Day 3:

These are the measurements I get one day later

temp: 75F
ph: 7.8
ammonia 0.75
nitrate - 5
nitrite - 0

Day 4: I notice three of the zebra danios school together but one always hides. When I turn on the light in the morning, or simply pass by the tank, he goes into a fearful frenzy finding a hiding spot and tremoring for several minutes before coming out!

temp: 78F
ph: 7.6
ammonia 1.0
nitrate - 5
nitrite - 0

I read that people recommend 6 zebra danios, but I only got them to help start the nitrogen cycle of the tank initially. I eventually want to have 3 Ryukin goldfish in there. Will this be too much bio load for the tank if I have 3 Ryukin goldfish and 4 zebra danios? Or if it's enough, can I add 2 more zebra danios? Also, should my ammonia be coming down faster?

Thanks!

-Roger

Hi there, welcome to the forum. I’m afraid you’ve been somewhat mislead about how to cycle a tank correctly, the links in my sig ‘what’s cycling’ and ‘fishless cycling’ should explain more to youwhat you are doing now inadvertently is a fish in cycle, because you have ammonia in the water this is dangerous to the fish, this will be why one of the danio’s is acting strange. It’s like if someone had shut you up in a room with exhaust fumes for days on end, after a couple of day’s you’d be feeling pretty stressed out!!!

If you don’t want to keep the danio’s then I would recommend you take them back to the shop and do a fishless cycle, this will prepare the tank for your goldfish and you can add them all after it’s done safely. It takes a couple of weeks but it means so fish are put in danger and you end up with just the fish that you want.

Thanks Miss Wiggle. I checked out the articles. This one seemed helpful:

http://www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

So I should change 20% of the water everyday till the ammonia and nitrite are both 0?

-R

well thankyou (i wrote that one )


if you want to continue cycling with the danio's then you need to change enough water each day to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm, preferably at 0 if you can get them down that low. 20% water changes are a good place to start, if you find after a 20% change that the levels are still a bit high then wait an hr or so and do another change. Each tank is different so it's always a bit difficult to say how much to change, once you've done a few days of it you'll get the hang of how much water you need to take out daily.



however i would still suggest you take the danio#s back to the shop and perform a fishless cycle, it's easier and safer

Hi Roger,

I always think it comes as a bit of a shock, especially to those like you who have attempted to research the situation before proceeding, to find out how different the real processes are that experienced aquarists use, as compared to things the local fish stores or many written sources will say.

You could have researched the heck out of the web and the library and never come up with as good advice as you've just had here. Miss Wiggle and the other experienced fishkeepers here on TFF have really got it down to an art, this business of passing on the right advice to get beginners started in the right direction. I've learned a ton from her and the others, so from my perspective you've really bumped into a bit of good luck with your research.

She's right really, that water changes, even on a not huge tank like a 30G, will get tiring and frustrating before the filter is cycled. The time it takes is very unpredictable. We like to say 21 days, but its rarely less than 4 weeks -- which if you stop and think about it is a very long time to be potentially changing 15 gallons of water each and every single day. Now, with a few fish, it may go longer before needing a water change, but still its better to be aware of a more worst case scenerio.

With a little effort, perhaps talking to the manager, you can often get them to take back a few fish like that despite them initally saying its not their policy - just depends of the personalities involved sometimes. Taking them back and starting a true fishless cycle will save you tons of work.

Anyway, I've been following the beginner threads of dozens and dozens of newcomers here and have recently been though a lot of it myself and can vouch for the wisdom of this approach.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. Welcome to TFF!

Thanks for the welcome folks! I was wondering, will BioSpira or a similar product help the cycle happen faster than daily 20% water changes?

Also, I just tested my tap water directly, and it shows an ammonia level of 1.0!

I read that chloramine could give that kind of reading. I just added some PRIME to a bucket of water, and I'm going to test the ammonia from there in a few hours. I'm a bit suspicious of the ammonia testing drops I'm using now, since the ammonia level seems to be the same in my tank as with tap water coming directly from my tap.

-AlphaFish

hi there, few questions then

bio spira - potentially yes it could work. But it's no means a guarantee. There's a lot of these bacteria in a bottle type of products out there, the vast majority of them are no good whatsoever so we don't generally advise people to use them. However the two products which actually get good reviews are bactinettes and bio spira. This is mostly based on two things, refrigeration and a shelf life! The bacteria in the bottle are living organisms and while their needs are basic, they do still have needs, if these aren't met then they'll die off. Both these products are kept refigerated which slows down the lifecycle of the bacteria meaning they live longer, they also both have a shelf life which means you've a much better chance of getting some bacteria still alive, however that being said it's by no means guaranteed, both products get mixed reviews. But that is a significant improvement on the completely bad reviews that all the other bacteria products get. So in conclusion, if you want to and can afford the money on something that may not work then by all means try it. But be aware it may not work. Even if it does work it'll only get you throught eh first stage of cyclin, producing the ammonia consuming bacteria, you still have to go through the second phase, producing the nitrite consuming bacteria manually with water changes.

some people's tap water does have ammonia in, so that may be the case, if it is for you then it's going to be a nightmare to cycle with fish, but shouldn't cause problems long term. Basically while cycling you want to keep ammonia below 0.25ppm, if you have water with 1ppm of ammonia then however many water changes you do it's not going to get below 1ppm. Now 1ppm may not sound much but that's a really dangerous level for fish so you are putting the fish at quite a serious risk proceeding with this method knowing you can't get ammonia below 1ppm.

However once you've got past the cycle the ammonia won't be a problem, what you'll find it just after a water change you'd get a little blip, but an hr or two later the filter would have cleared it, best to manage these by doing smaller water changes but more often so that you never get a large amount of ammonia going in at once.

It could be the effect of chloramine in the water, chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia, when the dechlor removes the chlorine it releases ammonia into the water. i believe prime and some other dechlors will 'deal' with this ammonia for you. what they do is change ammonia to ammonium, this is much less harmful to fish, it still shows up on an ammonia test. so if you're using something like this then the 1ppm of ammonia may not be so terrible. However if you are gettign the ammonia reading before adding dechlor then this is not the case and you do have ammonia in the tap water.

Ok, I tested some bottled drinking water as a control, and it had 0 ppm of Ammonium. It does appear that my tap water has 1 ppm Ammonium! So, should I get some Bio-Spira, some mature gravel, or someone else's media? This is Day 4, since I've set up my tank. I did buy some cheap plants at the pet shop, because I heard bacteria grow in the roots.

Otherwise my zebra danios seems to be doing fine. Thanks so much for the quick expert feedback! : )

-Alphafish

in order of preference

mature media from someone elses tank
bio spira
mature gravel

basically very little bacteria actually lives in the gravel, it's unlikley to make a tangible difference,

bio spira can work but is a bit dodgy, doesn't always work

mature media, providing it comes from a healthy tank, isn't allowed to dry out and is put into the tank within a couple of hours it should make a good tangible difference.

In addition to the excellent advice already given ( ) I think it would be wise to add that you'd be better off with only two goldfish once your tank is fully cycled. Ryukins are on the larger end of the fancy goldfish scale and it'd be far easier for you purely in terms of water changes if you had fewer!