This morning we discovered our previously healthy fry had nearly all died. we assumed this was the unfortunate result of using a breeding trap and we have heard one similar story. However upon checking the tank this evening we have now discovered all our guppies hovering at water surface along with one of peppered cory lying on his side at the water surface. Our neons appear fine but pleco and other corys seem to be diving to the surface frequently. We have done water test and they seem to read fine?

ph 6.5 to 7
nitrite 0.3
ammonia 0.25
nitrate 5

checked filter, seems to be fine, numerous healthy plants and aeration via airstone.

juwel 96 tank

3 pepper corys
6 dwarf corys (recent addition)
7 neon tetras
1 ancistras (dwarf pleco)
3 male guppies
6 female guppies
4 or 5 fry (was about 50)

been up and running since 20/5/03

other info...

been treating for gill flukes using waterlife's sterazin treatment (notice flashing by the guppies on leaves/gravel)

noticed what seems to be a film on the water surface and the water slighty cloudier?

no visible signs of disease.

snails in the tank not going to the water surface so concluded that not oxygen starvation.

water changes 10 to 15% every 3 or 4 days since fry arrived 11/07/03

any help greatly recieved!!!!

first of all you shouldnt be treating the fry for anything that is more than likely what killed them. sometimes when fish rub against the gravel it could be that they have ich or something else Everytime I have tried treating for flukes I have winded up killing most of my tank off. I know the medicine that I buy here in the states for flukes says not to use on scaless fish I know your corys and pleco cannot stand it. You might want to do another water change to try to get most of that medicine out of your tank and try to get those readings back to 0

Something is definitely wrong. If you want to get the readings back to 0, use Kordon Amquel plus. Great water conditioner.

Valerie

I would suggest water changes for short term, and looking into your filtering long term. In an established tank NH3 and NO2 should be 0, perhaps you need a better filter, or add filter media which provides a large surface area for Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria... like ceramic rings or bioballs or lava rock or shredded artificial plants or whatever, as long as it is inert.
Also, be careful when "cleaning" your filter to not damage these beneficial bacteria. Only rinse them carefully in tank water (in a bucket, for example).

Hi wolfie

I do not think that the sterazin treatment killed the fry. I have used it on discus fry, with no problems.

IMO I think that the ammonia and nitrite are killing the fish. In a tank 2 months old, you should not have any readings.

As you are in Plymouth the water from our taps is very very soft, and not good for guppys. Do you add anything to harden the water.

What type of filter do you use?

Keep up with the water changes.

Ammonnia and Nirite levels are too high and the fish are getting stressed through it, need to do a water change of at least 20% every other day to get the results down to zero.

Goodluck.

thanks for all the replies, unfortunally lost almost all the fish

3 pregant guppies, 3 peppered corys, one dwarf pleco and one guppy fry are all that are left now

filter is the internal that comes with the juwel 96 and have now placed a biofoam in as well

airstone times three placed in last night

just in the process of setting up the hospital tank for the survivors

took the water into emperors for a test and advice...

they said the levels were fine? and treat with fungus, finrot and bacteria treatment???

didn't know about the guppies and water hardness what do u recommend?

been a steep learning curve for both of us here and unfortunally the fish have paid the price

going to strip down the tank and start afresh? good idea or bad?

well better get back to sorting hos tank

thanks again for all the advice

This post has been edited by wolfie: Jul 24 2003, 07:58 PM

Hi Foxy

Gust a word of caution. Emperors is an Ok shop, but they tend to over sell. They seem to know what they are talking about, but in fact most of it is just out of books.
To pescribe three teratments in one go is just going to add the the stress of the fish.

Stripping down the tank is not a bad idea. I would go for a new setup with fish that are good for our local water. Go and talk to Ken in Devon Tropicals, down Union Street, the best shop in town. Tell him the Brine Shrimp man sent you, and he will see you right.

First make sure the tank is cycled fully.

You never know I might dump into you one day.

foxy? u have me worried (you'll reconize me by the tattoo on the hairy arm lol)

down to 1 guppy and fry..1 pleco and three corys

just done a 30 % water change even tho the levels test out ok and place the carbon back in...(even had the oxygen tested..ok?)

will check out ken when brave enough to restock

hopefully bump not dump into u too m8

just been checking replies from another forum...looks like may have over cleaned the filter pads too much and killed off the bacteria!!!!

was replacing the white foam pads every other week and the carbon pad 6 weekly but was washing the other blue pads in the tank change water bucket every other week when the recommended is coarse sponge 6-12 weeks and fine blue 3 - 6 months

killing by kindness??? is it worse than killing by neglect??

well at least have some answer to the problem and losses, just wish the fish hadn't been the ones to suffer

Don't wolfie we all make mistakes, i clean my filter pads out every week in old tank water to clean the grime and plant debris off otherwise my filter would block up and then the ammonnia would rise.

You can wash the filter pads out every week if you like, as long as it's in old tank water and not rinsed under tap water otherwise you have to start recycling tank.

Hi wolfie (foxy???),

Must be a jewel filter if you're talking about coarse sponges.....

With the tank being only 2 months old and that amount of fish (and were you doing water changes as well?) are you sure the tank had fully cycled?

As all ready said ammonia and nitrites in a cycled/mature tank should be zero

I think maybe it could have been too many fish too soon in a new tank .....

I've had my juwel tank nearly 3 years and never changed any of the blue sponges just give them a good wash in tank water every month (not all of them at the same time though ) and even wash out the white filter floss pads and use them a couple/few times - sometimes 2 at once so I can just take the top one off if it looks too clogged up. Though in a new set up probably best to leave well alone untill established

Carbon imho doesn't need to be used constantly - infact it can be detrimental as it can remove essential minerals vitamins from the water - very usefull for removing the last of any meds after a treatment or giving the water a bit of a 'polish' though

Another thing to be aware of that could have contributed to the problems is overfeeding and if you ever get elevated readings for ammo/nitrite then cut back on feeding as this will lessen the load on filter bacteria.

Fry and certain fish are particularly susceptable to less than perfect water conditions or new tanks - remember to stock slowly to give the filter time to catch up with the increase in waste from new additions....

hth

on daily 30% water changes which has perked the survivors up abit.

strangest thing is the surviving one guppy fry...strong little thing!!!

definately altering my methods with the filter now...I'll see how it works out...testing 2morrow to check up the levels

This post has been edited by wolfie: Jul 25 2003, 10:58 PM

test all show zero levels but the ph has gone up to 7.5? is that due to the increase o2 from the airstones?

all the remaining fish seems back to normal feeding swimming habits (not that i have added any food in apart for the fry when we can get near him/her)

hopefully thro the worse will check tank in a couple days to see how things shape up

thxs again for the help

just run the tests again and all showing zero again

corys and pl*co doing fine but the damn guppy fry keeps disappearing into the int filter!!

thxs again fo all the advice looks like thro the worse now

Hi Wolfie

You could put some corse foam over the intake to the filter. That will stop the littel fellow from getting in there.