ummm did i ask for proof? was i the only one stateing this was a waste of time? as its already been posted a huge amount of times?

nightlife20 (oh, and by the way - the reason for making names bold is so that it is obvious that it's a name, since lots of people's names could cause confusion), I think you need to calm down a little. I think that everyone agrees that Vip should have put a more useful title, including Vip him/herself (sorry, not sure which!), and that you're perfectly within your rights to feel annoyed that you clicked on the topic under false pretenses.

However, as Vip said, you could have stopped reading after 2 lines, instead though, you've posted about 4 messages complaining about it. Clearly you've got plenty of time on your hands, so I fail to see what the problem is. One person has said that they've learnt something from the post, and who knows how many people have learnt something but haven't posted saying so. That's probably saved the lives of several fish. It's completely irrelevant how many people there are on the forum, some fish have been saved. That's it. I think that most people would agree that saving just a few fish is more important than you being slightly inconvenienced.

Finally - you say that there's no point for the topic to be pinned. If it were pinned, then it would be there for anyone to read who fancied it, and I think that most newbies probably read all of the pinned topics, to learn as much as possible, meaning that thousands of people would learn about dyed fish before going out and buying them. Also, if the topic were pinned you wouldn't have to read any more posts about it. Nobody else would start topics about it, because they would realise that there was a pinned topic.

So. What's your problem???

i dont see how ppl. can dye fish, woulnt they all dye, and wouldnt it wast money? wont they stop if all or most the fish died, i realy dont get it.

i think that I read that about 80% or something of dyed fish die (!) before even being sold on. now you mention it i have no idea how this makes it financially viable.

they do mostly die, there is an 80% mortality rate on any method of dyeing fish.
go to www.deathbydyeing.org for more info on this horrible practice.

and lighten up people!!

the more people who know about this the more likely it'll be stopped.

Vip~ perhaps you can alter the title of your thread to make it pinworthy

A pinned "Everyone pls read!!!!" will get it's fair share of coverage but maybe change it to,hmmm..

Before you buy colorful fish...
(subtitle) please read!

or

The cruel process of dying fish
(subtitle) find out what to look for!


I think a list of the most common dyed fish would also be helpful

could just put a link to deathbydyeing.org to make it simpler? cos they've got that list there with pictures, it seems a waste to write it again if you know what i mean.

True!

I can think of something even better than a pinned thread.

MikeGiangrasso, the founder of Death by Dyeing, is a good member of our forum, and I think that if we email him, that there is a topic going about the subject, he might even come by and answer specific questions about it.

Why not invite him to come by then? And the fact remains...topics do die off and that's why pinning certain things is important. Had we pinned one of the previous discussions,we may not be having this one right now

I'll get in touch with him then.

ddm18-Very well said.

Vip: I think posting that article was a great idea. I am not new to fish keeping but I just found out about dyeing fish myself a few months ago on another board with a topic like this. Even if one person reads this..decides that it is awful(which it is)...it makes a difference.

I really have to defend this soooo much, i hadnt a clue at all about using dye on fish, and i agree its completely wrong, however had i of seen a topic that described that i probably wouldnt of read it because i didnt understand it just like i dont read about euthanasia because i think it is awful and would never do it, i would of without a doubt gone to my local fish store and bought the most beautifully coloured fish, unaware that they had been through the worst possible torture just to look like that.

Thats awful, this post caught my eye, and i'm bloody glad it did (sorry for the bad language there) i'm just so angry that people are making money on this cruel awful thing.

I think its important for all us newbies to be aware and sometimes it takes the blunt approach to get it. Please dont forget Nightlife that this message was posted for a reason - not to encourage this or to get high viewing/replies, it was precisely to make people know what is actually happening to these poor fish

I'm sorry guys, i really am, its just i might not of even known if i hadnt of clicked on this post, like many others have

Anyway Best wishes everyone
Miranda

OK, I've sent the email. Now I hope some members post some questions or comments that he can reply to if he comes.

First question: (probably an easy one)

Is it legal? Is it considered animal cruelty, or do the authorities not care because they're 'just fish'? Is there anywhere (how about here?) where we can list our LFS if they stock dyed fish? (I realise that we will probably just end up with a list of all LFS's, but who knows - it might help).

OK, I see now that that is more than one question, but it's the thought that counts!

ok anger gone...


seeing as a good question was asked...

on another topic it was said that in some states of the u.s.a its illegal.. but others openly accepted it.

dunno how it is in the uk.. i should imagine illegal as by law we arnt supposed to lable fish (u know gupps goldifsh ect) as 'feeder fish'... i havnt seen any in the lfs's that i use.. and the owners i speak to have been aproched by sellers who have some in stock, but they turned them down flat (good on em) they have also been approched by customers who even tho they know what that fish suffer for their 'prettyness' still want to buy them.

i dont get it myself.. i love the fish for what they are, and if my lfs's had sold true bettas i wouldnt have brought the ones i have.. as i know they have been bred for the flowing fins and wonderfull colors.. (even tho they are lovley i still think its wrong... but i did a good thing because one of them was in with barbs and another was in a bad state )

I'm disappointed nightlife20, I was hoping that would be an angry reply!

A thought's just occurred to me:

What about creating one of those email forward thingies that people send constantly. I hate them, but this might be a reasonable use for them. I also recognise that the vast majority of people aren't going to care, but if we could get some pictures or whatever, and came up with a really good, moving message, we might just get the message on a good proportion of desktops.

We could collectively decide on the actual message, getting across all the relevant points and then everyone who was willing could just copy and paste the message and email it to everyone they know. If enough people do it we can't fail to have some effect, however small.

Perhaps some of the more artistic among us could produce some kind of poster that we might even be able to persuade our LFS's to put up (the ones who don't sell dyed fish - of course).

Maybe this is a stupid idea that will never work, if so, feel free to ignore me, but if you think it's worth a try, speak up!

Middle things first (lol) they dont dye zebra danios that often (most Zebra danios have a symbiotic relationship with certain bacteria that make up the dark blue stripes on there sides covering dyes in the deeper body tissues) Glolight tetras are real fish (from nature not man made in any way) there are "glofish" which are GE danios (my avitar is one) and they are the closest thing to a dyed danio I have ever seen. But they not put throught the dyeing process and there ancestors where the only ones made in a lab so the fish you buy are not victims of the nasty dyeing process there lives are no different than that of normal danios and danios already have been bred into a number of color strains they come in there Natural Light Grey, Gold, Pink, Blue, Yellow, and Albino (w/o the blue bacteria that is) all of which (except the albinos) have the dark blue stripes and all of which can be present in albinos (no dark stripes) and in long fin or lyer tail varieties. Sorry to hijack like that but they don't dye danios that often.

And Wuv that is an excilent Idea

as for the 80% mortality rate that is just a guess I have spent probably 30 hours scouring the internet for some Viable data on the subject and there is NONE no one knows for sure and everyone has a different guess. Someone should write to a popular Aquarium magazine and ask for a study to be done but I dont subscribe to any and dont want to start now.

Now as for the validity of the argument "they can stop reading after a few lines" Thats not fair its not the reading that takes time its the loading process I'd say that at least a third of us are on dialup if not more and it took me a good three minutes to load this page if I click stop or go to another page my ISP wont let me on TFF for ano