My one Angelfish has developed some very strange nodules / postules. I'm not sure how to describe them other than huge pimples. They seem to appear suddenly then last for a couple of days or so. Disappear and re-appear elsewhere around the head. I've tried Melafix but it's not helping.
It doesn't look like a parasite.
The fish otherwise appears healthy normal and active. So do all my other fish.

(whoops! wrong section. Please move for me. Thanks)

Any ideas?

(click to enlarge photos)





This post has been edited by Bloo: May 24 2008, 11:11 AM

Moved to NWC.

Check to see if B.) on this link sounds right; http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_dise..._disorders.html

I've never encountered this, that site is probably the best aquatics med site in the US.

Thanks Tolak. It's the closest I guess. How very weird. I actually have a vet in my area that specialises in fish so may see how much it would cost me to take it there.
Otherwise I might try to get an equivalent medication here in the UK. Pity my little Amano Shrimp in the tank would then die but there's no way I could catch them in my huge tank full of bogwood.

I would go with two nets, a chase net that makes commotion, and a larger catch net, that just sits in the tank, waiting for the fish to come near. It helps to put the catch net in the tank before hand, let it sit there for a while being no threat at all. Make commotion with the chase net, not even trying to catch the fish at first. Herd the fish towards the catch net, they will often swim in, seeing it as a safe item, and trying to get away from the other net.

I always med in a separate tank, besides being cheaper it is easier to observe the ailing fish, and prevents well fish, or in your case shrimp, from being unnecessarily exposed to medications.

the closest thing I can think of is hole in the head or head and lateral line disease, same thing.
It is usually brought about by poor water quality or dirty environmental conditions, (dirty gravel and filter).
Regular partial water changes and gravel cleans can preven the problem but will not cure it. Waterlife Octozin might clear it up but you need to make sure the tank is spotlessly clean before treating.

I think Tolak got this spot on. Make a shrimp trap. Take a cup and put some shrimp pellets or some other food the shrimp likes and then put a hole in the lid. So during th enight, the shrimp will come in and in the morning pick the cup up and he'll be in there.

Definitely not HTH. This is practically the opposite of it, as things are sticking out of the fish and not eroding down in it.

Thanks All. I'm vigilent with my water maintenence so it's highly unlikely that it's due to my water quality. I do w/c around 25% once every 6 days and deep vacuum my entire sand bed at the same time. Every time. I have two filers on my tank where one would suffice - so it's certainly not that.

These postules also started appearing in a period where I didn't even add any new fish or decorations / plants for a long time (many many months).
It's probably been a month now that the fish has had them.

So my reasoning for treating the whole tank was that IF this is some result of an external parasite, I'd surely have to treat the whole tank?

I have plenty of spare tanks, heaters and filters to set up a hospital tank, so that's not an issue if needs be.

These white bits can be wiped off with the finger. However if they disappear naturally the do seem to leave a little hole where they were. But it heals up afterwards. And it doesn't spread to anywhere else on the body. Only around the front of the face / around they eyes.

still sounds like hole in the head. You get pussey discharge then after that goes there is a small pit or scar left behind.
It's not a skin parasite because none of the other fishes have it. Quite often only older sicker cichlids get it when they are run down.
Stick the fish in a spare tank and medicate it with Octozin or something for HITH and see what happens.

This post has been edited by Colin_T: Apr 29 2008, 11:59 AM

Thanks Colin. I will seperate it. It is indeed an old Angel. I've had it for about a year or two now but the previous owner had it for many years.

Edit: I have never dealt with HITH and doing some quick reading, I feel strongly that this might be what it is.
I'm still puzzled about why the fish has it. Some reports say it could be water quality (I would definitely like to rule this out), Some reports say it's due to poor diet (vitamin deficiancy) - I would like to rule this out as well.
My fish are fed a variety of foods and I would like to think very well balanced. Meat & veg (mussel & bloodworm once a week or so. Cucumber or zuchinni once a week or so. A variety of tetra crisps & flake food as well as algae wafers, carnivore pellets and sinking pellets.

I can also add that I haven't had any death in this tank for about a year.

What is the best medication to deal with this in the UK? Ah I see you recommended the Waterlife product. Does this mean I need to treat the whole main tank too?
I don't have any other cichlids apart from another young & healthy angel (about a year old).

This post has been edited by Bloo: Apr 27 2008, 07:50 PM

I would still go with Tolaks Diagnosis, with him owning over a 1000 angels, im sure he's come across this, and this dosent appear to be HTH. I've seen fish with it before, and it starts with a indentation and then the area around the indentaion starts to wear in and eventually makes a hole. But, treat it with what ever you want. Also, the thing thats going against HTH, is the causes of it, you yourself have ruled out.

Tolaks view of it being ancherworm larvae is wrong. For a start anchorworm don't look anything like this and these pussy things are only around the head. Anchorworm will appear anywhere on the body and usually occur on the back half or around the tail first. Archorworm are very easily identified by a long (10mm) white Y shaped thing sticking out of the fish. Often there is a red inflammed area where the parasite is attached to the fish. It would also spread to any fish in the tank.

HITH can be a sign of an unwell fish, (ie: a fish that is suffering from TB, worms, or other ailments). Quite often the parasite that causes it is found inside the fish's intestinal tract and damages the lining of the gut. This prevents the fish from being able to digest food properly and they become malnourished. The parasite then has the ability to infect other parts of the body. It is expelled with the fish waste and floats around the tank looking for new hosts to infect.

It is caused by Hexamita or Spironucleus, (or both) and can be treated with Waterlife Octozin or Metronidazole (Flagyl) available from a vet.
Treat the entire tank for at least 3 days. You can feed it to the fish mixed in with some frozen food for the same length of time.
Make sure the tank is spotless before treating and remove and carbon from the filter.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

I have come across many cases of HITH in my lifetime, and have not seen ANY cases that look like that. Especially if these things are going away, and then coming back, it can't be HITH.


Did you take it to the vet? What is this vets name? (I actually know a female vet specializing in fish based outside of London.) It's a long shot, but who knows, maybe I know 'em


Keep searching. Sometimes fish get these rare disease that no one has heard about


I could try to dose some QuICK Cure, it is good for all kinds of protozoan/external parasite infections.


BTW Colin, I don't believe that HITH is contagious??

This post has been edited by DiscusLova: Apr 28 2008, 04:19 AM

I have dealt with many cases of Hexamita or Spironucleus in angels. Without a microscope & the ability to stain some slides it is impossible to guess which it is, but the treatment is the same.

These internal protizoans have been implicated in HITH, though with angels the pitting rarely gets a chance to manifest. The fish show symptoms of hiding, lack of appetite, and stringy mucosy feces. If none of these are apparent it is very doubtful that it is HITH.

A 3 day treatment with metronidazole, or dimetronidazole which mat be more available in the UK, is a good start on what should be a 10-14 day treatment. I have been using metro to treat angels with internal protizoans for years, this is sort of thing that pops up on occasion when dealing with a larger volume of fish. This protizoan is a common part of the fish's digestive floura, but if the fish is stressed it can get out of hand. Stress lowers a fish's immune response, this is similar to a human letting themself get run down, which lowers the immune response. You are then more suspect to catching a cold or other ailment.

Anyhow, if you like, here is my usual cut & paste that I have been tacking up here for years on treating angels for internal protizoans. I may be wrong, and it may be HITH caused by internal protizoans, but in many years with easily ten thousand angels going through my setup I have yet to see it manifest those symptoms shown in your pictures.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

Now, for HITH carbon has been implicated, as well as poor water conditions & a poor diet. This is more often seen in larger cichlids, oscars in particular. The aquarist does not maintain the aquarium properly, and feeds a poor diet, usually feeders purchased from their lfs. The best way to treat a case of HITH is not metro, but immaculate water conditions, along with a vitamin enriched pellet. A high quality pellet soaked in a liquid human vitamin, such as liquid Centrum, is the best diet to feed.

Most fish carry the parasites that cause HITH but it doesn't affect them unless something weakens the fish. eg: old age, another disease, poor water quality, some sort of stress related issue. Then the pathogens get out of control and over-run the fish's immune system causing the signs associated with the disease.

It's a bit like when people catch the flu virus, they normally fight it off without a problem. But if the infected person is old or suffers from other ailments (diabetes) then there is a chance the flu virus in conjunction with the other problems will over-run the person's immune system and potentially kill them. Secondary bacterial infections can occur and respiratory problems may coincide to cause serious problems.

But if you're really concerned then take it to a specialist fish vet, or ask emmsy on here what she thinks it is. She is a vet that keeps fish. She might know. Her profile is below.
http://www.fishforums.net/user/41156/View-Member-Profile/

I completely agree with that, but from my experiences the internal protizoans manifest as an internal issue, and with the few fish I have not saved they never manifested as an external form of HITH. I also agree with consulting emmsy, for the short amount of time she has been here she has proven to be quite knowledgeable.

You can also do what I do for tough or confusing situations, contact National Fish Pharmacy through their help line. These folks have been dealing with these sort of situations all day, every day for years, and are a wealth of knowledge. The cost of the call is well worth the education you get.

For Tolak

I think you probably catch the disease well before it gets a chance to spread and cause more damage. Also most breeders are pretty careful about tank maintenance and hygiene and because they deal with large volumes of fish all the time, they can usually spot a problem well before it